Episode 14: Untouched Issues- Addressing Mental Health in Black boys-Pt.1

Alright, y'all, before we start, because some of y'all be tripping under the advice of counselor, I gotta add that the views, thoughts, opinions that are expressed on this podcast are mine and mine alone. They do not represent my employer. Alright, let's go. My best friend is my because I would like, damn. Do we really want to get into this discussion? Because if we get into this discussion right here, y'all. Woman just what's up, y'all? Welcome back to another episode of Reach My Force Finest, the podcast, y'all, I got to jump straight into it because getting these gentlemen that I have on today's show in the same room together at the same time, on the same day has been hell. But we did it. Even though it took us all day and going summer, we did it. And they are here. I'm so happy to have you all here. We got the good doctor. What's up? Good, Doc. What's good was good? We got the counseling coach all I've referenced the counseling coach in so many of my podcasts. He is here today. What's up, counseling coach? I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you. And we got the rapping educator, Mr. Egbo in the building. What's up, dude? What's groovy? All right, so let me give you all a background information on why we're here. So it always starts from a TikTok, right? A couple of months back, I did a TikTok where I said that black girls in schools were not given the safe space to have anxiety and have depression and have ADHD. They were not given the same grace and courtesies as their white female counterpart, students in the school systems. And so many people started commenting on their experience and somebody said, it's the same thing for black boys. And I said, yeah, it is, but that ain't my area of expertise, but I got the perfect gentleman to discuss that as their areas of expertise. So I have you all here today to talk about that. This is always a topic, especially in the black community, that brings up so much emotion and so many differences of opinions. But we're going to do it because it needs to be talked about in our community. All right? You got to address the mental health in our young men. So glad that you all are here and let's get into it. So first question, let's talk about the complexities and challenges surrounding ADHD diagnosing in black boys. I'm going to go to you, the good Doctor, for that one. Give us a little bit of your credential so the people that know that you ain't up here playing on this microphone. Well, let's see. LPC been doing that for about going on three years and got a doctorate in educational leadership. So I've been in the classroom this will be my 22nd year in public education. And it's all being in the middle, the dirty middle. With the junior high students. I love it. At risk student populations, give them to me. I can work with it. As it pertains to the misdiagnosis, I see a lot of obviously disruptive behaviors and referrals to counseling and AP and all of the like. But, yeah, a lot of times, at the end of the day, it is plain old boredom. These kids, a lot of times, especially our young men in other classes with a space for them to express themselves with educators that have a common background usually don't have a problem, but when we kind of have a mismatch between them, not a good fit between them and the educator, that's when things kind of go awry. So, yeah, that is what I've seen on a regular basis. Whole bunch of disorders by way of one of them is social. When we're dealing with social emotional learning nowadays, and that being the case nowadays, obviously it's a buzz. It's a buzzword. The SEL. Right? A box of check. Exactly. But what's interesting is the educator is not having the social emotional learning to know what clientele they have in their classroom. So I think that's what I'm seeing as far as this diagnosis concerned, a lot of, once again, it's behavioral and it's kind of getting parlayed into this person is ADHD, or this person has something. But, yeah, a lot of times it's just the mismatch between the educator understanding the background of these students. So when I like to bring up the cultural factors that go in the under diagnosis or the misdiagnosing of our young man right now, again, going back to the black community, the black household, counselor, coach, I'm going to go to you. You were raised old school like I was, right? There was no depression. There was no anxiety. Right. When you talk about the cultural factors when it comes to us trying to get our boys help is, oh, they're just being too active, or they're lazy. They're not depressed. They're just lazy, or I'm depressed. My mama say, go, I'm depressed them damn dishes, or depressed that damn lawnmower outside so they don't get the space to do that as well. So what other cultural factors do you think go into the underdiagnosing or the misdiagnosing of our black boys? So when you talk about how environment and how we were raised, especially when you say under diagnosis, so growing up in poverty or growing up in a neighborhood that's full of poverty around you, a lot of times people may like that's depression. Right. Where are you from? I'm from Baton Rouge. I want to tell the people, okay. Baton Rouge, Louisiana, right off of 38th street, way before NBA young boy, that's where I'm from, 38th street. Went to struma high school. But growing up in that place, and I remember coming home a lot. Come home sometime. Lights may be off, eviction note may be on the door. And my mom, she going to figure out a way to rub two nickels together. We're going to get it paid, and we're going to get them lights back on. Imagine me growing up and then still having to go to school, right? People who don't understand, who don't understand. I was born to a teenage mother. I'm the oldest son. I got responsibilities at ten years old that I shouldn't have. I'm a latchkey kid. I come home, fix my dinner while my mom is still at work, get my brother and sister ready for bed. So I had all this while I'm doing I'm ten years old, the age of my son now. Right. And so was I struggling mental? Absolutely. And that showed up in a lot of my behaviors in school. I was a straight A student, but I had the biggest chip on my shoulder because I was angry all the time. Add tired. That's that go. They coming in class and falling asleep, and the teacher yelling at you saying, Go to bed. But it's like, Hold up, lady. That's what I mean to say. Sorry, y'all, I can't go to bed. I couldn't go to bed. I was waiting on my momma to get on for work. And I'm being a father to children, so I'm tired for a reason. Tired and they don't understand. Correct. I love that. So I'm going to go to Mr. Egbo. You're significantly younger than us, but I love that here. All right. Because you can bring a different perspective that we may not have, right? Yeah. Growing up. So your story, I know you just kind of told me briefly, you were that student with ADHD, and that was often misunderstood by the teachers that you had. What kind of ways did your ADHD present in class, and how did that work for you? All right, so I'll start by saying I realized that I had ADHD as an adult because I'm Nigerian. And my parents I would never forget those letters, ADHD, because in the second grade, my teacher was like my teacher called my mom and was like, yeah. And all I heard was ADHD. Add a whole bunch of conversation ADHD. And I just seen my mom get really upset, and my mom fought it, fought it, fought it. And I was just like, what are they trying to say is wrong with me? What is that? Because my mom got really upset. So my mom was talking to somebody else on the phone. I heard her saying they're trying to say, yeah, there's nothing wrong with him. He's perfectly fine. He's reading on a fifth grade level. He's all this stuff. So I went with my mom. I'm like, Whatever that is, I don't have I ain't got that's. Not me. Like, y'all tripping. My mom is right, and I don't even know what that is. And I remember finding out later it said deficit. And that's what my mom was really honing on. She was like, there's nothing he's not lacking anything. So you're trying to say he has a deficit or disorder, but he's actually gifted. He's actually in gifted Add talented classes. He's actually reading on a higher level. His mathematics is on a higher level. So why are you saying this? But ADHD includes the hyperactive part. It's not just the attention part. Yeah, it's the hyperactive part. And that's how it showed up with me. So I couldn't control blurting out. I couldn't not beat on the desk fidget, Add, fidget, impulsivity, impulsivity, anything that had to do with impulse decisions. That was one of my challenge. I had to get up. I couldn't just sit there. I couldn't just sit regularly. I had to put my hands in my shirt. I had to sit on my feet. I had to do something. I couldn't sit in a lecture. Like something had to change. And I would finish my work in like 3.5 seconds because I'm just like, I want to do something else. Like I look at it, oh, this is easy. It's easy. Yeah. And then I'm like, you still on. Question five, but to the teacher you're a disruption because now you're done and I'm going to mess with everybody else that's around me. That's not done. So I'm a disruption now. Yeah. And so that was my life. Like kindergarten through apparently it started in pre K, but I remember kindergarten getting kicked out of class in kindergarten through, I'll say about 7th grade. And in 7th grade, it kind of curtailed a little bit. That's where my maturity came into a factor and said, okay, I'm going to have to stop some of this because it's stopping me from doing certain things that I really want to do. Before that, it's just like I can't control it. But you had to self control. It wasn't a medicated control. No. My parents never diagnosed. They never let me even allow myself to believe it. They always fought it out of me. They would just put me in a library with a bunch of books and be like, finish this. And they'll be like, see, there's nothing wrong with you. You can focus and read on that deficit part. I remember going through this with one of my sons and taking them to the doctor because I was listening to teachers at school, right, who, as I became an educator and later grew to understand my black boys in the classroom that had ADHD, that they were bored, right? So I'm taking my son to the doctor and I'm like, well, the teacher say he can't sit still. The teacher say he has to blurt out. The teacher say he stands up at the desks and does his work instead of sitting down, quiet, military style, like a good little boy. Add black pediatrician shout out. Dr. Felicia working out, apparently, but she said, ain't no wrong with him. And I was like, no. The teacher said the teacher said, It is. And I'm like you. Deficit. Deficit. And she said, can he sit his ass down and play that video game for four or 5 hours straight? I said, and can and cancel. Ain't nothing wrong with him. Ain't no attention, nothing. He's bored. He's not being challenged. And so we need to look at alternative ways, like you said, to get the message across to him. And going through that with my son made me the most patient and understanding educator because it was then that I learned, like, man, it's a million different ways to skin a cat. Can you write this paper? Okay, cool. Do I care if you write it under your desk, on top of the desk, outside the room, laying down in the hallway, it doesn't matter. So before that whole flexible seating thing became trendy and became all the way, like, a lot of us are already on there because it was a simple understanding. Like, I'm not tripping if you lay down and do your work, you're doing your work and you quiet. You ain't bothering me, but you don't mind that. But a lot of teachers who do, it's all about control. If they can control because they feel like, okay, I'm the authority figure, so I'm going to control the child. Right. So I don't care that you want to stand up and you still get the work done standing up, or if you sit on the floor, you get under the desk. I want to be able to control you. I see it because this is what. I said you're going to do. And can I add to that? A lot of that comes from I didn't get to. That's right. That's a good point. I didn't get to lay on the floor, and I had to sit in that chair, sit up, four point stance, four point pen says, I didn't get to. You not going to get to, no matter how effective that way of doing a work is. Works for you. The pride that ego won't let them. Like no, I didn't get to you don't get to. And that's where I separate myself from a lot of teachers, a lot of adults in authority positions is because since I was that student, I cannot grow up to be the hypocrite of the same thing that I hated while I was a kid, because I saw it. And I could tell that you're just upset, that it's a different time. You're just upset you wasn't raised in this time. But it's working for us. It's working in my room. Yeah. So I separated myself, and I don't have them issues. But do you all notice how I know I can speak from good doctor? I know we've talked together forever prior to us parting ways, but when you don't have that issue in your classroom, add, then Lil Johnny or Lil Devin go next door, and he has those issues, and it's like, we're telling you what we're doing differently. Just do what we're telling you to do. We're the experts when it comes to him. But like you said, it goes back to that authority, right? I'm going to just go ahead and say kind of little supremacist tactics as well because you have to be controlling. You have to be the dominant one over this black body. And so it pains you that this black body ain't doing what you're telling it to do. And the experts over the black body, which is us, is telling you, hey, he has this. Just let him he's going to be chill. Let him do this under the desk. You're not going to have any behavior problems, but because like you said, you're proud of your ego won't let you let that go. You're having these issues and you're wondering why. So then we got beef, the educators got beef with each other. Now because you think I'm going against all the rules, say do this. It's okay to bend the rules a little bit, but we're going to get into a little bit later who we bend the rules for, who we don't bend the rules for. If I get in on this, it's kind of interesting as I'm listening, you know, to Mr. Egbo and, and Coach just, you know, my age group. It it was kind of like what Mr. Egbo said. We were in that realm of I didn't get to do this. You're not going to do this. And it kind of is conjuring up these ideas in my head from like, third grade back. This is in the where are you from again? Tell us where you from. From Kentucky. So from Louisville, Kentucky. As a matter of fact, I was just teaching, so I teach educational psychology. So we got soon to be teachers. And my thing is I'm always transparent with them as it pertains to, okay, you guys are going to be going into the classroom, and a lot of you guys are not going to look like your student population. Some of them are. But nevertheless, how are you going to be in that environment? And what type of expression will you allow your kids to have in that space? Or are you going to be almost kind of like what you were alluding to? Are you going to indoctrinate them into this system that we have already in place that was essentially predicated on industrial Revolution, like 18th century type mentality and making people better widget makers? And really what the thing is, and this is what I was telling my class earlier today, we don't know. What. The jobs are going to be like. Heck, even this doing podcast, bloggers, being YouTubers, Add, all of that type of stuff wasn't a thing 20 years ago. So the best that we can do is allow them to express their creative juices because it's going to be through the ingenuity of them being independent thinkers divergent thinkers, add getting outside the box. However, what does that do to the system? If I'm teaching people to be outside the box type thinkers, it challenges the status quo and, oh, my gosh, what if you challenge I think that right there is kind of and then especially from kids from certain backgrounds that I don't understand, if they're in here doing this, my gosh, what would they do in society? Was it the owner of the Houston Texans that said, that controversial. We can't have inmates running the Bob McNair. Bob McNair can't have it. And I think when you say that, it puts me in that mindset. We're giving them the power to run this and we can't do that. So we need to put all the barriers in place to prevent them from eventually taking over and running this, because that's what's going to end up happening. That's definitely what's going to end up happening. I'm going to go back to you and ask both of you, actually, because somebody said, well, what signs do I look for? What are some of the signs and symptoms of anxiety, depression, ADHD in boys? And I'm like, Well, I'm not the professional, so don't let me get on here lying. I know some of the things that I see in my students that I'm like, I think this can be something. But you're not supposed to say that. But I know I can see you said earlier with eggball, like the fidgeting, right? I noticed that even in my own son, when he's anxious, it's the fidget, right? And the fidget, he fidgets by twisting his hair. He has locks add he's immediately going to twist his hair. You taught him. You already know once you this is what's happening. He could be on the football field with the helmet in one hand, but he twisting with I know he's anxious. I know that's happening. But what are some of the signs of anxiety, depression, ADHD that you guys are seeing with the clients that are coming into your offices? I'll just say, first of all, what we talked about culturally, right? As black people, we have to understand that, first of all, anxiety, depression, it is real, right. We know. We kind of alluded earlier when I grew up, right. I'm like, at that time, nobody really we weren't in that space like we are now, right. In 1992, I'm ten years old, nobody talking to me about being anxious. But now here we are, 2023. That's prevalent. And so signs could be just being nervous, right. In maybe an unfamiliar place. It could be, like you said, the fidgeting of the hair. It could be cutting. It could be just unsure of what's the next thing that's going to happen. Cutting. Cutting. Not to cut you off, but for the longest. When I first got to a certain school district, I didn't even know cutting existed until I got to this certain school district. And there was only a certain demographic of young ladies who were cutting themselves. All right? I remember I got into a little do you remember the issue that I had? And that was the same group of girl that tried to plot against me, add say I did something to help, but the camera caught me and saved my soul. Me, too. And you, too. I remember that. Help. But cutting, as in cutting their wrists, cutting their arms, cutting their leg? No, cutting themselves. And I remember this particular person had an issue with cutting, but we weren't privy. Sometimes the teachers are not privy to certain things that the counselors know, even though we definitely should be, because there are some things that we need to look out for. But this person apparently had a couple of visits to inpatient facilities or outpatient facilities. I don't know, but we didn't know. So this person went to the restroom, just asked me, can I go to the restroom, Miss Smith? I was like, yeah, go to the restroom, because, shit, I'm not policing your bladder. Went to the restroom, cut themselves, drew a lot of blood, called their mother from the restroom on their cell phone, and said, she let me go to the restroom, cut myself, and I feel like I'm dying. The mother, who was also an employee of the school district, called up to the school, acting a fool, and here I am in the people's office. Why don't you let this girl go to the restroom? Who knew I couldn't let her go to the restroom, right? But anyway, I say all that to say, it wasn't until recently that I discovered that our girls were doing this. Now. Now, this was something that I noticed that black girls were doing. Not to say that it never happened before, but I had never seen it. Right? And so now to hear you say that, now black boys are starting to do the same thing. Absolutely. And what is the cutting? They're saying that it's like it relieved. What is it? I mean, it could be a lot of different things. Somebody can be overwhelmed to the point where, okay, they don't know what else to do, right? So I've pulled my hair so much, right? I pulled my braids out. I untwisted my hair from the locks. So now I'm like, okay, that's not giving me what I need for relief. So let me see if I cut myself, not intend to harm themselves, take me out, but let me see if this is going to give me some relief again, right? The society that we were in. Now, I know you love TikTok, and I'm nothing against TikTok, but, you know, there's so much stuff out there. TikTok what kids can get these ideas from Add. So and they're glamorized, and they glamorize, and it's glamorized. Yeah. And I think it was I forget because I remember the incident you were referring to, and there was some movie that was out at that particular time that these kids were looking at, and there was some of that cutting and stuff like that in it. And then it becomes kind of like this fascination. You're hearing other people doing this and that it kind of bleeds into cross cultural type thing. And I think that that's what happened back in that time. And so now it's not anything that's like specific to white students or Asian. It's like all students. So they want to see with this experience. It's a relief that they get it's kind of like a catharsis that they feel when they're able to do it. And it's like, okay, yeah, that is a thing. It does kind of give and they. Have control over it. It's the one thing that they have control over. Exactly. And so then all of a sudden, it becomes habitual because mev had with Trichotillomanias pulling out people, they pull out the whole eyelash or eyebrow and stuff like that. I used to not see that from African Americans. And then all of a sudden I'm like, okay, this has crossed over. And so I think we need to start guarding up on that. Add a lot of the anxiety. And a lot of the stuff that we're now seeing in all demographics is something that if we're not prepared for, a lot of times we have these stigmas, and then I know it's. One of the things we're going to talk about a little bit later. But. We don't even want to get help and we don't know it's a thing. And then a lot of times the parents are not in the loop. They don't even notice. They're so busy doing this and trying to make ends meet that they don't even have that eye ear to the ground to know what's going on. So they kind of are reactive as opposed to proactive. And I think this is something I really want to push for our people, especially our people, is more mental health literacy, right? Like you just said, more of us need to educate ourselves on signs, symptoms and resources, supports things that we can do for our kids to help them. But I think it first comes with acknowledgment, right? We are still going back to that cultural factor thing. We are still sometimes in denial, kind of like you said, Mr. Echo, about your mom, right? And that could be a cultural thing in your culture. And we see that with a lot of our students in different cultures. I know a lot of my Asian students, a lot of my Nigerian students. Perfection is the standard. That is the standard. And so you have kids that come in and they're like, I got a 90, I got a 90. I can't go home with a 90. I'm like, Shit, what you mean you can't go home with 90? Baby, you doing good. I got an 89. It has to be a 90, has to be a 90. And I want to scream to these parents, this unnecessary pressure that you all are putting on these kids is what's causing them to cut, is what's causing them to want to go harm themselves because they're being told at home that they're not good enough, because they're not meeting the standard of perfection. And so this is where we're seeing a lot of that anxious behavior from. And again, seeing that in my students in the classroom has enabled me to relax as a parent at home with my students and their academics. And it sounds really crazy, like, really, like a crappy parent, because I'm like, bro, hey, 70, I need you to pass. I'm not stressing you out. I'm not doing this because you're probably never going to use the Pythagorean theorem again in your life. I'm not about to beat you because you didn't make an A on that geometry test. I'm just not going to do it. I understand that math may not be your strong point. I understand that there's a language barrier with your teacher. I understand that your board is hell, like Mr. Egbo said, and all you want to do is fidget and stuff because you don't understand the concepts. I'm not about to whoop you. That's our cure for everything in the black community. We're going to beat his ass, beat his ass, beat his ass. And I'm not going to do that because it's not that deep to me, because now I see as an educator what that's doing to kids. Or you'll see 20 years later, they sit up in your office talking about the crazy parent, the childhood they had as 30 year olds trying to process a new relationship, but they got some unhealed trauma from their childhood with their parents who wanted them to be perfect. And so it's like a cycle. And I'm like, let me cut that now. So now my kids know there's no zeros because zeros show no effort. But I'm not beating you for a D, I'm not beating you for F, because it's not that deep to me. But getting more parents, how do we get more parents on board to be more mental health literate, be more aware, be more supportive? What do we do? I was talking to a therapist friend, and she said that she doesn't see kids, right? And I asked her, well, why? And she said, well, because why? This is her philosophy. She said, if I see a child, they have to go back to that house and the parent not getting help, not doing the work, then I'm setting the child up, damn, over and over again, because we can do the work, me and the child, but the child still has to go back home. And if the parents are not getting their own work done, their healing process or whatever it is. So I think first and foremost, right, any family. Or parent that's going through a traumatic experience previously or going through they need to go and talk to somebody. And I mean, there's a lot of therapy around, not just here and where we are located, but you can find help anywhere. I think first and foremost, they need to do that. Add acknowledge it and don't be in denial. So one of the things and I can talk to you because you deal with insurance and all of that, I think a huge barrier once we get a parent to acknowledge that, okay, we have this issue, and maybe I do need to get some help, maybe from my mama having me at 15, not me. My mom will be like, Bitch, don't do that about me. But that was my mom. Right, but dealing with that like you said, something like you said and having that stress on you and feeling like your entire life is me making sure my brother and my sister are good, because that's what was put on me at ten. And that's one of the things I tell my kids. They're five years apart. My daughter's the oldest. You're responsible for your brother because he's your brother, but you don't have to raise your brother. I was helping raise raise two kids, me and my mom, we talk about it now, like, talk about, did I even have a childhood? Right? That's up for debate. Because I was so worried about making sure that my brother and sister had and didn't go without. And that still continues to this day. And that's what I'm saying. Like things that we don't hear. You can say it and do it now with a smile, right? But sometimes a lot of people will see that as trauma, right? Because I've had to carry this burden since I was ten, and now I'm 40, 41, 45, and I'm still, in a sense, carrying this responsibility that was put on me as a kid. I asked for this. Absolutely. And so my wife does a good job of making sure that I kind of stay in my lane and stay in my bubble, because if not, I'll be so consumed with what's going on. So I have to tell myself, you know what? That don't concern me. I was going to say, it's so hard. That is so hard. It's hard. And I have to make sure that I make sure that I'm good for my wife and my two kids. And then whatever energy I have after that, I can go out and go. Help divide it my family. Because not only your outside family, you got to be that person. As a counselor, I always wonder that, who counseling the counselor? Who therapy and the therapist? That has to be overwhelming to get that. I know it's all his job, but to be dumped on daily add I don't care if it's for pay or a $30 insurance deductible or whatever. That has to be traumatic. So how do you all I'm going all the way off topic now, but how do you all deal with that? You want me get that? You can go first. Well, actually, I got two therapists. That's good. I'm an army veteran as well, so I got one through the VA. And then I got another one that I'm using for me and my wife for marital. And to me, ain't no shame in the game. I got stuff that if I keep this bottled up, it's going to come out and being disgruntled. It's going to come out the way I talk to my wife, to my kids and whatnot. So I got to get this off my chest. And having that avenue with somebody that's unbiased to be able to get these things out, I think is a beautiful thing. And it's like, why didn't I start it early? Because this is just within the last year or so. Yeah, last year or so, that really started seeking that. Because sometimes in my mind, I'm like, okay, am I crazy? I'm pushing this view out, and it's getting kind of not received well. And it's like, dude, what's wrong with you? You're in a house full of women. You're a girl dad, two girls and a girl dog. You fighting the wind. Yeah. And so to me, I need that outlet. And so I think just being able to have those in place, everybody, for whoever is listening, I can promise you the person who might try to judge you and say, oh, you got a therapist, they need one, too. Add. I was going to say too. That's one of the things they tell you when you go to your program for counseling. Right. You need to find yourself a therapist. Right. Somebody that you could talk to, because, like you said, take consuming all of that everybody else's stuff, add trying to help them unpack their stuff, then it definitely weighs on you. Yeah. So when we talk about barriers, so even if we get our black parents, our black community, educated and empowered with everything they need to be able to help or provide their own kids with the resources that they need, we go into the barrier, the financial barrier. Right. First of all, picking a therapist is damn near like picking a spouse or a partner. Right. You have to find the right match. Correct. And a lot of times for black women I'm sorry for black kids, black boys, especially for black parents, I'm going to say black women because I'm a mother. I'm a single mother. I got to find somebody that looks like my son, I had to find because there's nobody else that I feel like can relate to him best. Right. So then we go to the problem of the lack of representation in black male therapist. Right. And then black male therapists that are available in your area, then you go to the black male therapists that are available in your area but accept your insurance, then those who don't accept insurance, how much is the cash pay? Oh, snap. It's $125 a visit, and I really need my kid to see him a week, and I can't afford that. So that's another issue that we're facing. So even those parents that want to seek that help for their kid can't afford that help for the kid. So then they go into the well, he can see the school counselor, the school therapist, but then to see the LSSP for the school, you got to be ordered into the system. Right. They ain't looking at you if you ain't got the paperwork to say that you could get this service provided to you. And the school counselor, I love them to death, but they so bogged down with testing and behavior and walking around with the walkie talkie and scheduling, and school counselors ain't what they used to be. Back in the day, a lot of people that went into school to be school counselors thinking that, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to be in the office helping kids work through their things, guiding them to make the best decisions. You can't even see a kid, right? You can't even see the camera times you'd be doing lunch duty. You can't even see a kid because. You'Re on lunch duty. Are you breaking up the fight, or are you dealing with the parents in the front office? Fighting? That's right. And so talk about lunch duty. That's how we had to be creative, right? Yeah. I have lunch duty because I'm a school counselor, but I had to also say, okay, how can I be effective during this time? So I took a group of kids, right? Frequent flyers. We get together out of section of the cafeteria, uno, checkers, chess, about 15 boys over there, because I deal with boys. Nothing against girls like that, but that's my space, right? Dealing with boys. You all are rare on a campus, a blackmail counselor as it is. So that's your point. Thank you. We try to make lunch dewy effective. But to your point, we do so many other things that it's hard to just find a time to make sure that we're servicing the kids like we need. So I want to move on to talk about something that I'm sure we all have dealt with as educators when it comes to our boys, right? And I know this can apply to girls and boys, but this is specifically an episode for our black boys. But I want to talk about the unfair treatment due to their disability. Right. I have seen so many times I could have a Johnny, and I can have a Javon that have the same exact label that in their paperwork, have some of the same type of accommodations, right? And when it comes to maybe the impulsivity getting the best of them, johnny blurred. Now versus javon. Blurred out. Javon is going to get the harsher punishment. And this is a battle that I fought at my job and probably, damn, they're on the verge of losing my job because I'm very vocal when it comes to the disparities. I see it. I see what you're doing and this is what we're not going to do. But I want to talk about that. So let's explore, talk about some instances where black boys with disabilities, including ADHD, face unfair treatment or discrimination in the various education settings. I can speak on something that comes to my mind when I hear that I'm not a follower as far as, like, I'm not a group thinker. So I don't really go with what as a matter of fact, if a lot of people are thinking one way, the way my brain works is why it's got to be a reason. I normally like programming. Something wrong with that. Yeah, I go down the other route. And the whole Biden thing, it never sat well with me. And that's because back when he was running with Barack, I was young and I've seen some somebody exposed him for the crime bill, the 94 crime bill. Somebody exposed him as the author of it and all this stuff and the stuff that he was saying. And I never understood why Obama chose him as a running mate. But then throughout the presidency, I seen it didn't really matter. He didn't really do anything. He didn't have an evil plan. I was like, no, but he didn't have an evil plan. So then when it came back with the whole Trump thing, I just never forgot that. And one thing that he said was, even though we created this issue, we can't feel sorry for them and not address this issue and put them away. We have to put them away. There's no rehabilitation for them. Right? So from that and that speech being accepted, the bill being passed, and we seen what happened after that, it took me into their mind, and it took me into the mind of the people who are able to create the legislation of the system that we're living in. So if you go to the school, there is an inherent fear. Now, you don't have a fear of little Johnny. Yeah. You don't have a fear of little Johnny because you're like, if he starts tripping, something else is wrong. We going to get to the bottom of that. Right. But with us, it's like, you know, there's trauma there, right. You know, that because of the system that they're living in, all of them are ticking time bombs. And if you go to the parents, you can't go to the parents for help because they might be worse off. They come to us for the solution. Exactly. So these people are ticking time bombs. You cannot play around with them. You cannot give them too much leeway. Like, if they start acting up. They could tear this whole classroom up, right? And I can't stop him. He's almost as big as me. Here we go. It's one of those, like, we created the monster, but we cannot get rid of the monster. So we've been taught ways to try to quench the monster and not let that monster ever fully evolve into something that will destroy. There's a fear of vengeance that's just looming around America, right? It's a fear of, like, what's going to happen when they finally get their revenge. I don't want to be here when that happens. You know what I'm saying? And so what happens is when Javon gets upset, it's a bigger issue. Or if Javon is figuring out that he has some power, some control over this class, over the other students, if Javon starts feeling powerful, we got to shut that down immediately. We have to quench your confidence, because your confidence could lead to greater destructive behavior based off your trauma. And that's what came to my head, because I see it all the time. That's heavy in boys. The one that hurts me the most is in girls, because my little sister, ever since she was, like, in the fifth, 4th grade, she had, like, curves. She was like, oh, you look too grown. Oh, yeah. And that was like my twin. And I would feel so bad when she would be like but they get to wear it. I'm wearing the same thing. It's the same exact thing from the store. I can show you. Mom, you bought me the same exact shirt, the same exact shorts. Why don't they get in trouble? And because of my sister's pain, it's always been, like, something that I've always noticed and I've hated, and I've just seen it so much, and I'm just like, it's fear based. The disproportionate punishment is fear based. It's nothing else. It's not that they hate if you try to say they're racist. It's not that they hate black kids. They're scared. They're truly scared, and they're scared of their parents, and they're scared of anybody associated with these people because they have this anger boiling inside of them from what the ancestors did. I didn't do that to them. So they don't even know that they're, like, pushing. They're perpetuating the same thing, just in a different form, because, like you mentioned earlier, it's still a form of supremacy. It's like, calm down, boy. You can't do that. It's the same verbiage. They just, you know I'm saying switch it a little bit. They put it in the SEL language now because that's what it is, SEL language. That's what I dealt with. That's what I dealt with a lot. And I wasn't the anger management one. I didn't get that. But a lot of my friends was. And these are friends that is playing joking more than me. They more funny than me. They're funny people. They're laughing, go lucky, happy people, except when they're in this environment. When they're in this environment, I don't know who they turned into. I don't know how you brought that demon out of him, because he don't act like that unless we fighting, unless it's like danger. You know what I'm saying? Add that's what they feel in them classrooms and a way I've seen it is shutting down because I know what's going to happen if I get angry. So I'm saving you by shutting down. And that's when I put my head on a disc, and that's when I put my hoodie on my head. But then, now we got a whole nother problem now. Or you tap, you fidget, but we got a whole nother problem because now you're not compliant. Yeah, that's the teacher. The teacher is doing this. Wake up. What's the problem? How do you tell someone that they are the problem? Nobody that asks you what's wrong do they think is them. So how do I say it's you? You coming over here talking to me is making me upset, and then you're telling me to do something that I really don't feel like doing. I can do it later. But right now, these emotions, I'm trying my best. I've seen it. I've seen them try their best to hold these emotions in. But we poke and we poke, and we don't give them that leeway. No, you're a kid. You don't get to do that. And so as we get ready to go back to school here in a few weeks, one of the trainings that I'm putting together is that right? How do you for the for the teachers, not the students. Teachers are the ones with degrees. They're the adults. When you see that a child is already not responding to you, don't agitate the child. Right. Don't continue to drive that child into a place in a space that's going to result in something happening, hopefully not to you, so that the child doesn't get kicked out of school or anything like that. So that's one of the things we're going to do when we get back to school, because we had a lot of that last year. A lot. Some teachers do it on purpose. Yeah, some teachers, they want you gone. So they don't poke you and poke. You until you do something. They have the power of the pen. And we talked about that. We had a couple of episodes where we talked about we called them Educates. And we had another episode where we talk about the black and white gray area of trust and why black students are not responding to white students. And it's examples just like that. And so we always talk about professional development. Professional development. These are some of the needed classes. These are some of the needed trainings that we need to have. I remember I'm going to come to you because I know, let me tell you what I'm about to tell you. I can't remember was it a teacher, a situation that we were dealing with. I think it was one of my daughter's situations with a principal that she had. And you were like, get out of this book. And I said, I'm in my messy ass about the Amazon Prime, this lady, this book, because she needs this book. Because how dare you be the principal of this urban school? In what school? That wasn't necessarily supposed to be urban guys. We just came in and took over. But you have no idea how to deal with urban black girls and black boys. How dare they make you be the principal of this school. You have no idea. What was the book you told me to order for? Well, it's called for white folks who teach in the hood. Yeah, and it's one that I use when I'm teaching my class and I make reference. It's by Christopher Emden, and he started Columbia University Teachers College, the whole urban education department over there. I think he's now on the West Coast somewhere in California. But nevertheless, that book is a must. But nevertheless, you don't see a lot of people wanting to dig into it a title. It kind of scares, but it's not even that. Because if I'm kind of going with this ideology, that the system add. I'm propagating this system over the students, and I'm not hearing them, then I, as an African American teacher, can be a white person who teaches in the hood because I'm suppressing them with this it's basically colonization. And the rest of you all too. White folks who teach in the hood and the rest of you all, too. But no, back to one of the things. So the good doctor got to drop a couple of references. So what Egbo was saying, it was the Birth of a Nation, and that's the movie context with the blackface and all of that, where all of this being scared of this black male therapist, what if we don't put a knee on his neck? Then all of a sudden he can turn into this monster. And if we don't do something now. Rise up, add revolt. Exactly. And it's continuing to be something that we're dealing with years later. Because guess what? We have not dealt with that as a society. I think those are some things that I see on a regular basis. Back to Chris MDEN. He uses a term that is called ratchetemic. And what that term is, and this is for Moms and Dads and everybody, african American students in these systems, let them know it's okay to be ratchet and academic at the same time. Not meaning that you're going to be ghetto fabulous and be doing whatever in the environment like that. You understand where you are, but at the same time, you can be from where you are and be still academic. And I think we think that those things don't coexist, but they do. And so, like I say, coming from the background that I was in and dealing with a lot of the racism and everything in Kentucky. Heck, I can go back even getting a degree. One of my professors who pretty much said that white white teacher, I mean, white people are superior to African Americans. It was me and another black girl in the class. So we just kind of looked at each other like, you talking about us. So that was a thing. Imagine this. I don't feel like I can be myself expressively in this space. So guess what I do? I fall back. I put the hoodie on. I put my head now, at that age, you couldn't discourage me because I already started to know who I was. And my baby is African American studies. Yes. Because if we don't start allowing our kids to understand about themselves, we're talking about more than Martin Luther King, Jr. Or Rosa Park. We're talking about the whole gamut of inventors and people from all spectrums of success in African American community, then these kids grow up not knowing that they belong in those spaces like everybody else. I think we're all parents. Are you parent? No, not this baby. Not Mr. Ego. But I know in our households and how I was raised, you can never kill my confidence. Because I had a mom and dad in my house that were like, I'm going to build some arrogant ass kids, if nothing else, because their goal was to make sure that nobody, black, white, male, female, was going to be able to knock us down off from the pedal so that they put us on. And that's something that we don't see in our kids today. Right? I hate to use the word soft, but they are so soft in a sense, the parent can spend all day at home, all 910. Twelve years building them up. Building them up. It takes one of these little kids to come and knock them down. Right. But we have I know my daughter who gets in trouble often because she is very vocal. She is her mama's child. She was given that confidence at home to speak up and speak out. But a lot of these kids are not. And when they don't, like, we talk about you and I have both tried to advocate for African American Studies. So, so very hard. Right. But what we always say is that it's not going to be us. It's going to be the kids that are going to be able to push this forward. And they don't realize how much power they have. But because those supremacy tactics still exist in our school systems, they are fearful of speaking out. They are afraid to speak out. They are scared of consequences when they speak out. So you have the one, two, three kids on a campus of 1500 who are like, I ain't scared. I'm going to speak out. But we need numbers. And that's not going to get it. But it comes from establishing that confidence in those kids, like, hey, now you can talk. You can speak out. They better not say anything to you. But how can we? Damn, we can't win. We can't win in the system we talked about two weeks ago, it's 1.3% black men in education. I think it's like six, 7% black women in education. We need numbers to help these kids understand that, hey, you have the power. And with social media, and all of a sudden, they don't know how powerful they are. If you all will use your resources for good, instead of doing stupid stuff like setting the bathrooms on fire, putting holes in the chair with thread, whatever that dump she is that they do, you all would be a force to reckon with. Can I say something, though? Yeah. So this hits me personally, because you could say the same thing for black people in America, right? Absolutely. That's the conversation with adults. We could be so instead of the dumb dance challenges, the dumb stuff we're doing on social media. Right. But I think that premise kind of completely ignores the fact that the ones that are are little fires that are getting quenched out. Yes, that's it. So it's not that they don't know. It's just they know that comes with more repercussions. For example, if I go on TikTok right now and I twerk, nobody's going to have a problem with it, except maybe some older people that might be following me. I'm a block them. Right. But if I go on TikTok and I start talking about Jesus, then my peers are going to be like, now, you know, you was just over there with it comes with more backlash when you try to deviate from what at the end of the day, it's still a system that is pushing something forward and quenching something. So those kids, they have tried ever since they was young. I was that kid, they tried. You get policed by your own peers. It's not only the adults or the authority. No more. Your peers will tell you, shut up. That's why that confidence is so important. We have to find a way in the house. At the house you can have a. Confidence is when you go as being outnumbered. And so that's one thing that we try to do at home. Right. Affirmations are big, right? I do this with my boys at school. I have a mirror. Go to the mirror. We're going to say these affirmations and I do it with my son. We do it our daughter, because we have to instill that self confidence. Because when they go out in this world, right, when they leave and go out into this world, whether it be school, whether it be to work, whether it be to hang out with friends, right? At the end of the day, you're going to have to know the decisions that you make the person that you are like the integrity of the character, everything that we built up in you. Right. You're going to have to let that shine. Even when people are trying to put you down, you have to be mentally tough. You have to be and as a coach, right? I still coach them, but I tell it to my young athletes, like, look, guys, your confidence, your mom and dad, they can give you all the training. They can put you in all these things. But at the end of the day, you're going to have to perform. You're going to have to perform. And confidence is key. Confidence is key. That's it. So at what point do us, as some part of the authority, at what point do we promote it without being in fear of what our consequences are going to be? I'm glad you asked that, because I was getting ready to get to another question, and I'm going to go into a project that the two of you kind of I remember you doing it, and I think you kind of shadowed a little bit. Add, we talk about highlighting the importance of creating inclusive environments that value the neurodivergence in all of our students, right. The different ways that they think. Add, process and process. Things always brag about you and the grant that you wrote to get the music studio up and going for the kids. And I think I remember begging you this year, I need that project because my science teacher friend is in desperate need of a final exam project. Add, you sending it over and the kids just having so much fun with it. I remember like, oh, man, they did it. They were in the hallway the last two, three weeks of school, just rapping, rapping, rapping, all kind of stuff. And I love that you did that, because it gave those kids an outlet. Right. They were not bound to, like you said, sitting up in a chair, studying for a final exam, pencil, paper. It was not that. It was, here's your creativity. These are the things I need you to do. Work them however you can work them. I don't care how you work them. Just get them worked into. However, you were not putting them in this little box, confining them into this little box to do exactly what you wanted them to do. You allowed them to be creative, and I think that's so important. When we talk about especially black boys, what do they like? I do a survey at the beginning of every year, right? Because it ain't about me. I've been 20 some years in this game. I already know it ain't about me. What do you like to do? How do you best learn? I think it's so important to ask these kids, how do they learn best? Add however you learn best, I'm rocking with it, because that means you ain't giving me that's. The. Less headache you're going to give me. So if you tell me music is your thing, you work better with air pods in your ear. You work better fidgeting, baby. I'm listening to Anita Bake over here. I don't want to hear NBA young boy right now, but make sure you cut him down a little bit in your music, in your AirPods, and you work because I know you don't get it done. I guess I'm going to say. So kind of funny that you saying that. That was an assignment that students gravitated toward, got them engaged and everything like that. One of the years I was doing that, the kids all in a little groups and they spaces having the music and family this net, an administrator walked in and said, what are you guys doing in here? It's like learning. What does it look like? And it was so interesting because it's like the chatter is, oh, get the students engaged. Get them to do this, that, and the third. But then what does it look like when it's taking place? And how receptive is that from? So it's like you got to be ready for what you ask for. That control. Again, we want you to be engaged. We want you to do all these things. But now I need to control how you're engaging the kids because it sounds like I hear rap and how can rap and science go together? Because now I want to control the narrative of how you are engaging the students and does this align with the curriculum and all of that? But that's your specialty, right? Yeah. All right, let's talk about that. We're going to wrap this segment up. I got to keep you out for it for a few more minutes, though. I'm going to wrap this segment up. So if you think about it, my mind, I got that mind, it goes crazy all the time when we're young, that's how we learn. We learn through music. And as a matter of fact, when you get older, you don't forget the songs, the educational songs that you learned when you was a kid. And I do this with my class all the time because I like preface before I bring the music in, I let them I give them the information because you might ask the kid, how do they learn best? And they might not say music or think music because they're thinking. That's not learning. That's not the answer that the teacher wants. Exactly. So I give them the information about music and its correlation with education, and I say, all right, I just want you to say the alphabet. The 26 letters are alphabet, ABC. Why are you all singing? Because that's how they learned it. I said say the alphabet. Just say the letters. Oh. And then they say it ABC. And they say, L-M-N-O-P-I said, Why are you saying L-M-N-O-P? You know what I'm saying? Because that's the song. And then I tell one person, I say, all right, you go AB sing the whole song. C-E-F-G how I wonder what you are up. And they're like, what are you doing, Add? I'm like, It's the same song. They're like, no, it's not. And I was like, y'all sing Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star and y'all sing ABCs. And they're like, Twinkle, little star. And they're like, oh my gosh. And I'm like, and you all this old and you all still remember it. Music add rhythm and melodies. It just naturally sticks in our brain easily. That's why we know lyrics of songs like you're getting mad at a kid, but how you know the lyrics of the song but you don't know was it taught to me the same way? Was it taught to me the same way? One of them was on a simple beat that was giving simple information. Probably, like, 21 savage. That cat add. I had 21 Savage I shoot up on you and black in our back. You know, how can you not memorize that? You know what I'm saying? But you all want to make it so difficult. Why? We already figured out the formula. The problem is, like you said, the control. When they get older, you just don't believe that they can handle music at an older age. They're going to take advantage of the fact that we're doing music in here. So that's what I preface them with. And I come at them with songs about the lesson. And at first it never fails. At first they have this natural resistance. Kids just got this natural anything you do is because you doing it is a natural resistance. So they have a natural resistance to it. But one thing that's so hard for kids to learn, we can agree Utah science, no English, okay? But one thing is hard for kids to learn is the lunar phases, okay? They just mix it up. They just don't know how to say it in order. So all I did was make a song saying the lunar phases in order very simply. So you can try to write it down as many times you want, anything. Or you could just memorize the song. All you have to do is memorize the song and you know the answer. So that's what I started doing. But then I was like, I'm going to go a step further. I didn't done a few years of this. They're asking similar questions every year on the quiz. The DCA, the CBA, the TCA, whatever, all the dang, it's the same similar questions. So I start using the verbiage of the test in the song. So, for example, I'll say dissolving sugar is always going to be physical. If it's boiling or it's freezing, then it's physical. Tearing that paper or balling it up is going to be physical. If that change can be reversed, it's probably physical. So I'm giving them the type of questions they ask. They'll ask, like, which one of these is an example of a physical change? No? Does all the sugar always go be physical? Right? You know what I'm saying? And so I'm giving it to them like that, very plain and simple. And it's been working. My students have told me. I'm hearing the song playing back in my head as I'm taking the test, and it helped me. You know what I'm saying? And so what I did was that's how I preface I showed him that it helps us learn. And then I incorporate what he passed on to me, which is, now you do it. And this is where I get the most black, because it's like, I haven't been allowed to do this before. And they ask sometimes, Can I cuss add all this stuff? And I'm just like, I want you to just try. See what comes out of you. Add. Then we'll deal with what we got to fine tune after that. Because you're trying not to stifle their creativity. Exactly. So before I cut this segment short, you were a 7th grade student where you were the teacher, right? And you went back to the school that you were a student at, Add. That's where you now teach. Yeah. Beautiful. I love that. I did my student teaching, a little bit of my student teaching with him. And he showed me the book for white people who teach in the hood. I'm taking the baton of what he pretty much passing on to me. And the only difference is just the generation. But I'm taking everything that I'm seeing him do, everything that I'm learning from him. And I'm taking that to just even more relevant perspective, because it worked. Because it worked, and it's still working, still working for him. And he's where he is. Add the generation. He is two years from retirement. Imagine me. I'm with them. They always ask me, how old are you? How old are you? I'm with them. I'm dressing like them. They got a problem with the way that I dress because they're like, I can't tell if you a teacher or a student. Be more professional. You know what I'm saying? And so when I say it, when it's coming from me, they're receiving it even more. Because it's just like, he knows something that I haven't seen in any other male role models in my life. Something's different about this guy. I don't know what it is, but something is different. And when I walk into a room, add, when I start speaking, the thing that made me become a teacher and stay a teacher is because when I started going into classrooms, everybody was just, like, staring, watching, looking at my shoes, looking at my hair, just watching. Any questions? How old are you? What size shoe do you wear? But you got the attention. You got the attention. That's all you need. Once you got that, it's a wrap. Now it just depends on what I say. And so that's why I lean on like I call him. We have an hour long conversations because I'm like, I need to get the information that's in your head. I need that. I need the experience that you have without having to go through it. I need that experience. I need you to funnel that through, because if you could do it again, I know you would do it again through this way. So that's how we going to keep it going. And what's so beautiful about the Good doc is that years your students are still remembering things that you talked about. I can see one of them being hey, Ms. Smith. That's cool. I'm like Dang. Well, how are you doing? Do you still talk? Yes, I talk to him often. Can you ask about me, though? So your impact is crazy. And one more thing. Before we wrap this segment up, I want to highlight that you guys are not just using rap, right? You're using music, because we know that that's what resonates with our kids. But when you guys do these projects and you're giving them choice, because choice is important when you do these projects. I've walked by your classroom and heard AC DC beats or Pearl Jam beats or Taylor Swift beats. So you're not confining them to say you have to do 21 Savage and you have to do NBA young boy. It's your creativity. So I love the even spoken word. Yeah. We don't force them to use a Beat because some of them can't stay on Beat. And that's I'm one of those people that couldn't stay on Beat. Didn't you kind of get into shows like Magic? So we took it a step further and we turned it into a talent show because so many of them because I don't only teach boys that look like me. They there, but I don't even think they're in a majority. Unfortunately, they're showing up less and less to school. So I'm teaching people that idolize people that look like me, but when you ask them to do it, they can't produce the same way. They don't feel comfortable. So I just said talent because it's okay. Don't try to rap. You could try, but it's okay. You don't have to. What is your talent? So we open it up to talent. Incorporate the science with your talent. And little backlash at first, but once they started seeing that one kid did a magic trick with the periodic table and doing some and one kid was doing splits and just mentioning body system, something like that. So we opened it up, and my thing was, man, we should open it up so the whole school could see this. But kind of like we were saying earlier, it was like, how does this make sense? How is this that takes me to okay, defense. I'm going to wrap this segment up. I know you probably look like a hurry up, but that takes me into why I say in a couple of episodes prior to this how much you all are not valued, because any person with good sense, any leader with good sense will be like, this is a diamond on my campus. And this is a person that I want to keep on my campus. Because at the end of the day, they're working for the betterment of these kids. But we got that ego again that we talk about him, because you're not doing it my way. You got to be the highway. So now we're going to wrap this segment up, but I want to keep you guys for a few more minutes longer to address some other issues with the overdiagnosing and misdiagnosing of these black boys. So we'll wrap this segment up and come right black in a part two. You namaste this podcast.